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100 Online Dates:
Interview with Veronica Meyers

By Michael Fiore

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100 Online Dates:
Interview with Veronica Meyers

MICHAEL FIORE:

Hello, hello, this is Michael Fiore and I want to welcome you to another one of our interviews. Today I’m really, really excited to have my friend Veronica Meyers on the line with us, talking about online dating.

Online Dates Tips and Successfully Meet the Man of Your Dreams

Online dating is a question we get a lot on Facebook, over email. We’re constantly getting emails from women saying, “Michael, how do I talk to guys online? How do I find good guys online? How do I avoid douchebags online?” Because douchebags online seem to be a big problem, and I was having a conversation with Veronica recently and she mentioned a really, really fascinating–and a little bit frightening–experiment that she went through recently, where she went on 100 online dates. And I said, “Well, golly, if anything makes you an expert in online dating to me, it’s going on 100 online dates.” So she was kind enough to give us an hour of her time to talk about this, and I’m really, really excited about the experiences she’s going to share with you and, more importantly, the system that she’s going to share with you for how to do online dating, as a woman, the right way. How to meet good guys and how to follow from there.

So Veronica, welcome to the call, say hi.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Hi, thanks for having me! This is really exciting.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I’m really excited about it, as well.

VERONICA MEYERS:

This is the first. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah stoked, super stoked!

VERONICA MEYERS:

Super stoked.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So Veronica, before we get started why don’t you just give us a quick “who are you?” How old are you? What do you do? And what’s your dating life been like and what prompted you to do this 100 online dates experiment?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Sure. So like Michael said, my name is Veronica and I am 26 years old. During my real life I actually am a marketer but. . . So how I got started with online dating is, I was dating this guy for quite a while, it was a really serious relationship, and we broke up. It was really, really hard for me, so my mother decided that, you know, she was going to be a great mom and sign me up for JDate because she wanted me to meet a nice Jewish doctor so we could have nice Jewish grandbabies, and then be really happy, and we could all just be a happy Jewish family, right?

MICHAEL FIORE:

So JDate, of course, is a. . . as some women may not be aware, there are of course some more general online dating sites out there, and then there are more niche online dating sites. So there are online dating sites for Asian folks or Black folks or people who are really fit. And JDate, of course, is an online dating site focused entirely on Jewish people.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right. So I started using the service probably about two months after she signed me up. I was really hesitant to use it at first, and I really wasn’t getting a lot of dates. And I couldn’t really figure out why this was happening. So I started testing different things. I was changing my pictures, I was changing what I had in my profile, and eventually I found a formula that really worked for me for getting a whole bunch of dates. So once I put this formula in place, and now I’m on a couple different sites, and I use this same formula on all the sites. I started getting a whole bunch of emails and being contacted by a whole bunch of men wanting to take me out.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So. . . yeah. So in the search of really trying to find somebody for myself I’ve just gone on tons of dates, over 100 dates, and it’s been a lot of fun.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So have those dates gone successfully, do you think? I mean, with 100 dates there’s got to be some that were great and some that were horrifying, and it sounds like a book to me, right? Like 100 Online Dates, you know, Horror Stories and Fabulous Successes from the World of Online Dating. Or something like that. But. . .

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, I really have some interesting stories. I’ve been out on some good dates. I’ve even dated some people from online for a couple months, one guy for six months.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Wow, pretty good.

VERONICA MEYERS:

But there has been some seriously interesting people that I’ve met on my dates. And actually, I do joke with my friends about making a movie. There are some odd, bizarre people out there, but there’s also some great ones too. So don’t be discouraged if you want to, you know, date online, because you can find some great people.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So just for fun, before we move on to the rest of the content we have planned here, why don’t you tell us quickly what is the funniest or weirdest or most horrifying of the dates that you went on, on these online dates? Let’s just kind of get that out of the way.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, so can I give you two stories?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah. Please do. Please do, yeah.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So this one guy, when I was living in New York, I lived there for a little bit, I was doing online dating and I met this guy at a bar. And it was a little late, and we had both had some drinks with our friends already, probably wasn’t the best time to meet this guy. But so I met him at the bar, he buys me a drink and he asks me what I’m looking for. And you know, I’m telling him that, you know, I’m not really looking for anything in particular, but I’d really like to find somebody to spend some more time with and maybe settle down with a little bit in the future. And he said to me, “Well that’s not really what I’m looking for. I’m more looking for a one night stand.” I said, “Oh!”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh!

VERONICA MEYERS:

Okay, so he takes his beer and he chugs it. Like, just chugs it so fast, slams his glass down on the table, and just sprints out the front door.

MICHAEL FIORE:

What?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I’m at the bar by myself, and I’m like “A’right.” I finish my drink, I get in a cab and I go home, and I go to sleep, whatever. I wake up the next morning and this guy sends me a text message telling me. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

That’s okay, yes, yes. Just keep going, it’s fine.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Telling me, “Veronica, I had such a good time with you last night. I can’t wait to see you again.” So. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

And you were like, “uhhh, what?”

VERONICA MEYERS:

What? That wasn’t the time that I had last night.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah. Okay, that’s one. What’s the other one?

What’s another story?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I went out with this one guy. We went to dinner, and he asked for water with lemon. Totally normal, right? So the water with lemon comes out, and he eats the lemon and he asks the waitress for some more lemon. So the waitress comes back, and she brings little Petri dish with 2 lemons and he says to the waitress, “Excuse me, ma’am, I was really hoping that I could have a whole bunch of lemons.” And she got this weird look and, you know, she walks away. And I’m like, “All right, I gotta know.” I was like, “Dude, what’s the deal with the lemons?” And he continues to tell me how he’s so afraid that he’s going to get scurvy.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh my god.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So he eats lemons as much as he possibly can. So you know, for me I’m thinking dude, like, leave this at home, you know?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Who eats lemons on a first date?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Let me share one of my stories from back when I used to do online dating just for fun. Cause I actually met some really fascinating women when I was doing some online dating. One or two girls I actually ended up dating for a while, and others that, you know, we just kind of had interesting experiences.

But one time I met this girl online years ago, before I met my girlfriend, and seemed cute, seemed nice, you know, entrepreneur, somebody I thought might be interesting. We chat online, we end up meeting up at this restaurant here in Seattle. And you know, from the very first moment we’re there we can both tell there’s no chemistry and no real attraction

right? It’s just like not. . . “do not pass go.” But we were sitting there chatting for awhile, and we’re just talking about random stuff, talk about business, talk about whatever else. She seems kind of haughty to me, not somebody I really want to deal with. Then she just looks at me and says, “Michael, have you ever been addicted to anything?” And I go, “Ummm, I don’t know, chocolate I suppose.” What do you want me to say, “yeah, I had a pretty bad cocaine problem for awhile?” I was like, what a wonderful first thing to ask on a first date. Suffice to say there was not another one.

But. . . so obviously you’ve been on a lot of dates and you’ve gone out there. And a lot of the women that are going to be listening to this. . . we have a pretty interesting range. You know, we do have some women who are younger. You know, you’re only 26 yourself, but having known you for several years you have a maturity beyond your years, I would say. And the women we’re dealing with, who ask us a lot of these questions, are either women who are, you know, of your age roughly up to 30 or so, who have never really been married. Who are trying to find that one guy to date, to settle down with, to have kids with and kind of go from there. Or just to have fun for awhile, just, you know, date some people and see what’s out there. But we also have a lot of women who have been in long-term relationships. You know, you said you had had a long-term relationship of course, a difference of scale there. I’m assuming it wasn’t like 10 or 15 years, because that would mean you were really, really young. But we do have a lot of women who have been either married or engaged or in a long-term relationship for 5 or 10 or even 15 years, who are now back out in the dating world. And a lot of them didn’t grow up with computers. You know, really? Or didn’t grow up with computers the way we have them now, or the way that kids have them now. And so this whole idea of being able to go off and do online dating is really strange and frightening. Just like the texting stuff that I have myself–Text the Romance Back and Text Your Ex Back and those programs–is kind of new and strange. So as we kind of go through this material, we’re going to want to think about it both from the perspective of somebody who’s a little bit younger and hasn’t really been married or anything like that before, and somebody who’s kind of getting back out there now and is confused about “how do I date today?” And I think you can probably offer some really good insight on that.

So why don’t we talk about dating sites to start with. I think a lot of women who are doing this, they might be looking around and they’re like, “Well, what sites should I go on? What sites should I even look at?” And it sounds like you’ve had a lot of success and a lot of experience with a variety of them. So what are your experiences with the different dating sites that are out there, and which ones would you recommend women would use? Or more importantly, if you don’t have a specific recommendation, how would a woman figure out which site to kind of go and start to use?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Sure. So I have personally used about five different sites throughout my time online. So the sites that I’ve used are PlentyofFish.com, OkCupid, I’ve used Jdate, I’ve used Match.com, and recently I’ve started using eHarmony. And I’ll tell you what I think about all of them.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. Let’s start with Plenty of Fish. So Plenty of Fish is one that is free, right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It is an ad-driven kind of platform, kind of basic, and anybody can kind of go on there. So what are your opinions on that one?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, so one thing I like about these free sites is that, compared to sites where you have to pay for them. . . Anybody can make a profile in the sites where you have to pay for them, but if you haven’t paid for it then you actually can’t communicate with anybody. So if I’m on a site like Match.com for example, where you have to pay for it, I email somebody and he hasn’t paid for it, he might not be able to email me back. So what I love about Plenty of Fish is that it’s free for everybody, so everybody will be able to get your emails and can email you back.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Cool.

VERONICA MEYERS:

I found a mixture of people on Plenty of Fish. You know, there’s some people on there looking just for sex and there’s some people on there looking for a long-term relationship, and you have to know that going into Plenty of Fish. You know, you have to understand that you’re going to get some emails for, from guys just looking for a one night stand. And if that’s not what you’re looking for, what I do is I would just ignore them. So you have to, you just have to know that that’s what you’re getting yourself into.

OkCupid is kind of new to me. It’s like Plenty of Fish but. . . It’s also free, but I feel like the quality of the guy on OkCupid is a little bit higher than the quality of the guy on Plenty of Fish. I have not received any sex requests or anything like that on OkCupid, so I’ve been enjoying that one.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, great. How long have you been on that one?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Probably about two or three months. So that one is pretty new for me. And I’m pretty happy with it so far.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So on Plenty of Fish what you’re basically saying. . . This is news to me, too, because as a guy the experience of online dating sites is very, very different right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

As a guy I. . . You almost will never get a message from a girl, right? It’s very, very rare that a woman will actually message you out of nowhere as a guy. Whereas my female friends, you know, it’s really about kind of dating guys and the right kind of guys into messaging you. So the idea that, you know, guys will just message you for sex. . . Well, no woman would message me on my online dating profile for sex, because it’s a fundamental difference. So it’s kind of interesting to watch the other side of things.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. Yeah, it’s very interesting dating online as a woman but. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yes, yes, yes. My friend, a good friend of mine who I’ve known for about twenty years is a very attractive woman, and we were sitting around one night looking at her profile and at all of these guys who were 15 years older than her asking her to marry them. And she’s like, “I don’t even know you and no!”

But anyway, continue. So JDate is one that you’ve. . .

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yes. I started with that one. That’s a paid site. So, like I said, if you email somebody and they aren’t paying for it they cannot necessarily see your emails. I used it with success when I first started. I’m not really so much interested in it anymore. I find that a lot of the guys I’ve met on there either I haven’t been attracted to or had a connection with, so really I’m just on it right now to keep my mom happy. I’m probably not really even using it that much.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Fair enough. So what do you think is the, before we move on from JDate, I mean JDate is a niche dating site right? So both Plenty of Fish and OkCupid, we talked about before, are more broad, whereas JDate is very much “this is for folks of the Jewish religion.” right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And you’re saying, you know, it’s been a little boring. You haven’t really met guys who were that interesting on it. Do you think that’s just because of your particular, what you’re looking for, or there’s something about the niche site that. . . obviously guys who are on JDate are going to, you know, be kind of more into Judaism and more into the whole Jewish lifestyle kind of thing. Do you think that maybe somehow that niche site thing attracts a lower quality or less interesting guy, or is that just kind of your personal experience?

VERONICA MEYERS:

You know, it’s interesting, because when I first started with it I went out on a lot of dates from JDate and met a lot of people I was interested in. It’s been recently that I haven’t, and I don’t know if that’s ’cause my tastes have changed or gotten more experience with online dating. But I know a lot of people who have met their husbands and their boyfriends on JDate. So it’s probably more of a personal preference. You know, Ddate is really a great site for. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

And I think for women who are listening, the niche sites can really be a great way to go, right? Depending on what you’re into. For instance, if I was single right now, and I’m not thankfully, I would most likely put my profile up on a place like OkCupid, which is very general. I’d put it up on possibly Plenty of Fish, though my experience on Plenty of Fish was similar to yours, that it is much lower quality. And then I would probably personally go to some place like. . . I forget the html site, but there are sites out there that are like fitness singles, right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And I do a lot of Crossfit. I spent the last year and a half getting into pretty damn good shape, and it’s something I’m actively interested in. So for a woman who’s listening, you know, if you’re in your 20s, 30s, 40s, whatever it is, having that. . . It doesn’t necessarily need to be a religious-based thing. You know, there are Christian dating sites, there are

Jewish dating sites, there are Muslim dating sites, or it could be an ethnicity-based thing where it could be white, black, etc. But there are also sites out there, quite a few of them, that are focused much more on a specific interest.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So if you’re into. . . I guarantee there are Republican singles sites. There are, you know, geek singles sites for people that are into computers. Although I’m sure those are 99 percent guys that are on those sites, right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Vegetarian dating sites.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Vegetarian dating sites would be fantastic. Maybe there’s a carnivore one out there. You know, and honestly there are also sites out there for people that are just looking to hook up. Right? Who just want to have sex and do whatever else.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yup.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Online Dates Tips and Planning Stage

So when you’re kind of planning your online dating strategy as a woman, understand I would probably tend to say that you want to be on a variety of sites, ranging from, you know, the biggies, which to me are OkCupid, possibly eHarmony–which we’ll talk about in a second–maybe Plenty of Fish, but also, you know, try to figure out what are those things that you’re really passionate about and interested in. If you’re really politically active, whether you’re Democratic or Libertarian or Republican or whatever, it is… that can be a great way to meet guys who you already have some kind of interest with, which can open up a lot of conversational things.

You know if I was on a Crossfit site, for instance–I do Crossfit– if I was on an athletic site and saw a woman on there, I could open up a conversation with her around the fitness thing. Right? Instead of just having to do the whole like, “Hey, how you doing?” Which is a horrible. . . If I was teaching guys how to, like, talk to girls online, you’re always like, “Yeah, the worst thing you can do is say ’hey, you’re hot.’ ” Like, golly, thanks, appreciate it. “We should have sex sometime.” Like, what are you doing? You’re an idiot.

Let’s move on though. So. . . I just wanted to make that point, though, that there are all these niche sites out there, and whoever you are I guarantee, no matter who you are or what you’re into or what kind of interests you have, what kind of fetish you have or whatever it’s going to be, that there’s going to be a site out there that will fit you. You just got to get on Google and kind of start to search them out. So move onto the next one. I think you were going to move on to eHarmony. Was that what was next?

VERONICA MEYERS:

We can talk about that one.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, let’s talk about that one.

VERONICA MEYERS:

There’s Match.com

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Either one you want to touch on.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Let’s talk about Match.com. So I’ve had a lot of success with Match.com. Again, it’s a paid site, so if you email somebody and they’re not paying for it you won’t get a response in return, which isn’t always the best thing. But you know I’ve met a lot of great people from there. The people who do pay for it are actually looking for somebody that they want to date, because they’re putting the money out there saying, you know, they’re dedicated and they want to find somebody, which is really nice. So I’ve enjoyed using it. I’m currently not using it ’cause I just switched over to eHarmony and I’m trying to play with that one for a little bit. But Match.com’s been really good. I’ve really enjoyed that one.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So there’s something there about the paid site versus the free site thing, right? Where the. . .

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

The barrier to entry is going to be higher, right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Most likely the guys who are on a paid site will have jobs.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Which is. . . yeah, I don’t know about you, but that’s usually a good thing in some way. I think most women want to marry, not marry but even date, somebody with a job. Do you find. . . On a site like Match, do you find the conversation or the quality of the guy to be higher because of that, or was it just kind of the same types of men?

VERONICA MEYERS:

The quality of the guy is definitely higher than Plenty of Fish. In terms of being similar to OkCupid, I feel like it’s actually pretty much on the same playing field. So it’s definitely a better quality man. So and a lot of times I’ll see guys who are on Match on OkCupid, so they are also playing around with different sites, too. But I thought that it was a pretty even in terms of quality so far. I’m pretty new to OkCupid, it’s just been a couple months. So. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. So let’s talk about eHarmony. So Match.com has all that, those quizzes and such, right? That’s a big part of their thing.

VERONICA MEYERS:

JDate has it, Match.com. . . I think it’s new, but it’s definitely not as detailed as eHarmony. So, like, JDate I know has a personality test, and they’ll try and match you based on your personality, but it’s super simple to fill out. To sign up for eHarmony you have to dedicate, like, this serious chunk of time.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, okay. So let’s talk about eHarmony. eHarmony is a site that’s advertised on television. It seems to me they advertise to a pretty broad spectrum of folks. I believe originally they were a Christian site, where they kind of evolved out of a Christian site either. Anyway. . . I believe the people that started it they originally had a different URL that was Christian, but what’s kind of the schtick with eHarmony? What kind of makes them a different type of site, or more attractive or more interesting site, for some people?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah people on eHarmony are really looking to find their perfect match. Somebody they’re going to settle down with, possibly marry. So these are people who are, like, really serious about finding the right person for them. It costs more money to join.

MICHAEL FIORE:

How much do they ask them for, for eHarmony?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So there’s different programs, but if you sign up for the one month, which I did ’cause I just want to test it out, that’s like 60 bucks I believe. So it’s a little bit more. You have to go through the process of actually filling out all of their questionnaires, which takes some time so, you know, they’re going to weed out the people who aren’t really serious about it. And then in terms of the communication process. . . So the other sites we talked about you can just send emails back and forth, or more like instant messages back and forth. So it’s really easy to communicate. With eHarmony they put you through a certain process, where you have to answer certain multiple choice questions and they have a whole process that they have that you have to go through before you can really email somebody. So, you know, they really believe in their process. They really stand behind it, and if you’re really serious you’ll be willing to do that.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay. So eHarmony though is really a, it’s not for the “I just want to date around” crowd.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And if you are, and honestly, if you are in the “I just want to date around” person or you’re just trying to hook up, which I know is much rarer for women than it is for the guys who just want to go and meet a lot of girls, you probably should avoid that site. Because if you go on that site, you’re going to be. . . it’s basically false advertising. If you go on there and say “Hey, I’m really not looking for anything serious,” well, people on eHarmony are looking for something serious.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah. Very serious.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay. Cool. So any other sites that you kind of have had experience with, or anything that you kind of look for in a site that you think makes it a more interesting online dating site?

VERONICA MEYERS:

These are really the ones that I focused on. I actually did try out, I was experiencing with being vegan for a little bit, so I was trying out a Vegan dating site for a little bit. I don’t think I ever went out with anybody on there, but these are really the ones I stick with.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Cool. Great. So let’s talk about profiles. You know, you were saying that when you first got on there, when you first started going out there. . . I’ve met you several times, you’re a very attractive young lady, and when you first got up there you just weren’t getting many emails from guys. Honestly again, as a guy, though, it’s always kind of funny because I’m a reasonably good-looking guy, I’m pretty successful, I’m pretty witty, and I put up a profile and I’ll get maybe one email every several weeks from a woman, right? Cause it just, the dynamic is very different. Women want to be chased, they don’t want to do the chasing. And you know, women who are very conventionally beautiful will get thousands of emails, no matter what their profile is, for stupid reasons, right? And just, like, real douchebags going over and over again from there. Well, let’s talk about what do you think the mistakes you made in your initial profile were, and how did you change that to get to the point where you were getting more guys and hopefully higher quality guys?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Sure. So the first place I was making a mistake was with the pictures.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great, okay.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So when I first started out: 1.) I was nervous about having all of my information online, and 2.) I was a little bit younger, I was a little more self-conscious at that time.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh yeah.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah. So I was afraid to put my pictures up there, so I had one shot. It was a head shot, it probably wasn’t even that flattering. So what I’ve learned is, so guys are very visual

MICHAEL FIORE:

Super, super visual, yes, yes.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And they want to know what they’re going to get. So here’s what I’ve started doing. My first picture is a full body shot. And I know that’s probably going to stress a lot of women out, but the thing is that different men like different body shapes. So not all men are necessarily attracted to, like, the stick figure shape, or the athletic shape, so I really want to urge all the women to, you know, feel more comfortable and really, you know, be okay with putting a full body shot on.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Let me just speak to that for a second as a guy, and as a guy who, you know, part of my business. . . I have a large portion of my business which is talking to women about these kinds of things, but we also have a lot of guys for other programs we sell. And a lot of the emails I get from guys are, like, annoyed at that elitist body image thing that’s out there. The whole idea that every woman has to look like Kate Beckinsale or something like that, right? You know, me personally, I see a Victoria’s Secret model and I’m like, I. . . What’s the point? I really don’t get it. Right? I like women that look like women. I also like women who are in shape, but I’m not personally looking for stick figures. Right? And there’s a lot of guys out there, even if you’re a little bit overweight or you’re not quite happy with some things, when guys get together and talk about these things we’re not like obsessing about skinny girls all the time. Right? The most important thing, even in pictures, the most important thing is, to me, is a girl who is confident in her body, right? And that always comes across if you’re, you know no matter what you’re particular body type is, if you can stand there and kind of display yourself in your picture with confidence, you’ll attract men. Right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. I would agree, I would agree. Ever since I started doing that, you know, it’s definitely helped for me to start attracting more men using online dating.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Actually, I’m actually thinking I’ve known you for a few years now from different conferences we’ve gone to, and I can actually see, like, a lot of your confidence has evolved over the last couple years. Right? The way you kind of carry yourself and that kind of thing. Just thinking about it now. Okay, continue go ahead.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So that picture, so I think it should be a little bit sexy but not slutty. So don’t show everything, don’t have your boobs, you know, hanging out.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So what’s that mean? What is the difference between sexy and slutty, because a lot of girls, younger women particularly, they’ll do pretty over-the-top shots, right? They’ll do shots… There’s kind of that standard “I’m taking a picture of myself on my cell phone. . . ”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, don’t do that.

MICHAEL FIORE:

. . . kind of thing. That’s kind of going down, and it’s showing cleavage or their abs or in a bikini or something like that. I mean, where do you think that line is?

VERONICA MEYERS:

I definitely don’t think you should be wearing a bikini or lingerie in your shot. You know, in my shot I’m wearing a black, you know, more formal dress that’s a little bit longer but maybe a little bit more low cut. So I’m not showing everything, it’s still a little bit modest. Nothing’s hanging out, it’s not too overly sexual, I think. I think, personally sexy is leaving a little bit to the imagination.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, yeah.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I think by, you know, covering up a little bit while still looking confident, I think that is sexy.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I would also say, you know, from a guy perspective, if you’re putting out a picture that is overtly sexual, you’re going to get a lot of the guys who are just interested in sex.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Agreed.

MICHAEL FIORE:

A lot of them actually, you know, it’s just going to be. . . As a guy, you know, the programming in our brain has to say, “oh she just wants sex, I’m going to write her about that,” and again it’s going to be guys that, and there’s that anonymity online, so a lot of guys that are just gonna be like, “Hey, do you want to come over tonight, blah, blah, blah.” Right? Trying to avoid being too vulgar for once in my life, so going there. Basically, you want to look attractive, you want to look confident, and you want to be. . . But again it’s not about. . . Look your best, I think is probably the key thing, right? The worst thing you can do is to put up a crummy picture of yourself sitting around in your sweatpants.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Right, it’s got to be. . . Guys are going to assume, and women do this too, you would tend to assume from a guy’s online photos these are the best he looks. And, you know, he looks kind of close to that. Maybe he’ll be a pound heavier or two when you meet him, but it’s but it’s got to be a kind of a current photo. To me the worst thing you could possibly do is put up a photo that’s, you know, five years old and then when you actually meet the guy it’s like, “This is not the same person who I was originally going to get together with, who I was going out to dinner with.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

That’s the worst.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It never works out I think is the key.

VERONICA MEYERS:

It never does.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And look attractive, dress up, look good, find photos of yourself looking attractive, having a smile, that kind of thing.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right. So then the next shot should be a headshot where there is good lighting. Maybe a professional shot that really shows off your face. I think that’s really important.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So the third shot should be what I call an action shot. So doing something outdoorsy or something outside. So show the guy that like you can hang, not just like a prissy girl that wants to be pampered. So, for instance, I have a shot of me, like, climbing this huge ladder outdoors. It was part of like a challenge course or something like that. So show the guy that you can hang with him, and that you’re a good time.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And I think there’s a level of independence there too, right? So it’s like you’re not just like, you know, again you’re just sitting around the TV with your sweatpants, but you’re doing something, you’re active. I think to me that kind of shot. . . and this is something guys look for. It shows that you’re not needy right off the bat, right? It’s like, “Oh, like, Veronica is an attractive, independent woman who’s doing cool stuff. That’s very, very attractive.” Right? As opposed to just like. . . I’ll talk a little bit about some of the things I’ve seen that I think are big fails in the actual writing of the profile, but the photos are a good place to start there. Go ahead.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So that’s it. If you want to put one more photo, I have one more photo, it’s another headshot, but I really wouldn’t put in any more than that because I think you really want to leave a little bit to the imagination. So that’s enough.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So you’re saying basically three photos. So the first one is kind of full body, sexy but not slutty kind of shot, right where you can kind of see things. You’re looking at a shot which is a facial, face shot. Maybe a professionally shot face photo. And then the third one is kind of an action shot of you doing something fun, whatever it’s going to be. And again that doesn’t necessarily mean you need to be, like, skydiving, but just doing something fun. What do you think for. . . Before we move on here, what do you think about for people who have kids, for women who have kids? I know you personally don’t, but should the photo have the kids in it, do you think? Or is that something that the woman should kind of keep underwraps a little bit more? Not stress, or what do you think would be the proper way to kind of handle that?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, so I have a personal opinion about this. So in all the profiles it will ask if you have kids. So I think that it’s important to be honest, and if you do have kids to say you have kids. However, I don’t think you should put them in the pictures. I just personally feel like it’s not necessarily the safest thing.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh yeah, yeah. Very true.

VERONICA MEYERS:

You know you really don’t know who’s looking at the pictures. So I would personally say don’t do it. You know if you get in a relationship with somebody and it develops to that point, you know, of course introduce them to your kids. But don’t introduce them to your kids on online dating.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I think there’s also something there about. . . as a guy, and you know, when I was single I dated two different women who had children. And to me, it’s all about identity and sense of are you a person outside children? Right? Like when I look on Facebook, on Facebook I’m friends with a bunch of women I went to high school with, and something that kind of bugs me is that a lot of times they’ll have photos on Facebook as the profile picture is just their child.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And I’m like, listen, your child is beautiful, I personally like kids and I hope to have some someday, but for me it’s like, well, are you person outside of your children? Right?

Okay, Veronica, so we’ve covered what women should be paying attention to in their photos when it comes to creating a great online profile, and as we said before the photo–and you know as a guy I can attest to this–if you don’t have a good photo, accurate photo, and attractive photo as a woman, you’re just not going to get any kind of, any kind of. . . and nobody’s going to look at your profile, unfortunately. Maybe it’s because men are shallow. I think women are kind of the same way. If you go to a profile with no picture, your mind immediately thinks “this guy must be deformed in some way,” or, you know, want to hide from his wife or something like that. But I really. . . we covered the idea of the three key photos that you have to have: a great full body shot that really kind of shows off what you look like from head to toe, where you look classy but not slutty as we say. And a good face shot that shows that, and then an adventure shot, where you’re having a lot of fun. But after a guy sees your photos. . . And as a guy I can tell you first thing we see is we see the photo, we see the little headline there. We click through, we look at all the photos, and then if there’s nothing to see we actually dig through the actual profile. And the actual profile is where you kind of seal the deal and weed out the douchebags hopefully and find the cool guys. So what are your tips for how to create a really great written profile on an online dating site for women?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Sure. So like we talked about in the intro, you know I’m into marketing and into writing copy, so I’ve really taken those skills from my, you know, normal everyday life and applied them to this profile. So the way I always start out my profile is I just introduce myself. You know, “Hi, my name is Veronica.” Just make it really friendly and state your name; I think that’s really important.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, so not a lot of game playing or anything like that? Just kind of getting really out there.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. right. Exactly.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And then what you’re going to do is, this is what I have found to really work, is to break up the profile into different sections. So if you use. . . some of the different sites have their own sections. I prefer to use the main section and create my own headlines. So the headlines that I use personally are “my interests include,” “what I do,” “what I’m looking for,” and “does any of that sound interesting to you?”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, cool. So basically what you’re saying there is on some online sites like OkCupid they’ll have that already kind of broken down for you. So they’ll have kind of an intro, and then the interests section, education section, things like that. But you’re saying that no matter what, even if you just, you do the sections that don’t fall into this pattern blank more or less right, and you always focus on the. . . you put them all in one section.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay. So what does this. . . what’s the “interests include” section, and why do you put that first in the way that you’re structuring your profile?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I just want people to start to get to know me in my profile, and I feel like, you know, it’s a good section to do that in. It’s good to kind of do that first. So I like to put three things that I like to do. Not only do I like to list out those three things, but I like to tell the reader why it is that I like to do that. I give them a little more information, make myself seem a little more interesting, and kind of get them hooked a little bit more.

So for example, one example is “my interests include hiking and indoor rock climbing, because I like to feel challenged and I feel it’s damn good to make it to the top.” So I give a little bit more information about why I like it, and it gives the person reading my profile something to bring up in a conversation in an email if they decide to email me.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. So what are some more examples? You said rock climbing, what about the other ones?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I also have “experimenting in the kitchen, because I like to try new things and be creative,” and then I put in parentheses “sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay, great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And then “random pawn shops because I like to explore, especially the little local joints that most people don’t know about.”

MICHAEL FIORE:

So I’m really focusing on what Veronica is saying here about that. The word “because” is very, very powerful in this particular case. And from a marketing standpoint, I’ve seen it in marketing as well. That’s actually how Veronica and I know each other, from that wacky world of marketing. And it’s much more powerful than just saying, “I love playing guitar” or “I like cooking” or “I like eating out,” or anything like that. It gives a sense of verve and a sense of fun and a sense of independence to a large degree. You notice on the rock climbing there’s a whole idea of “I love the challenge of getting to the top.” When she’s talking about cooking, it’s about the experimentation and showing that you’re not just kind of a boring type of person. But you’re actually striving for something in some way. And no matter what your interests are, even if your interests are relatively sedentary, you can make them exciting. If your interests are reading, you could talk about because I love exploring new worlds in this fascinating way. Right? I would caution against you know. . . in your entire profile, really I caution against negativity in any way. Right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Nobody’s going to like it if you say, “My interests are sitting alone watching television, because my life is horrible and I have no friends.” Right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. Why would I want to go out with you?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Nobody wants to date you out of pity, ever. Right? Like Veronica just said, in a lot of ways your profile is an advertisement,‘ and you don’t see a lot of companies. . . you don’t Coca Cola or McDonalds or anyone else going out there and having their entire advertisement being about the bad things about them. “McDonalds, eat our food and you’ll get fat!” Right? That’s not really what they’re doing. And again, it’s fun, it’s engaging, and showing independence. Men are very, very. . . most men are very, very attracted to independent women who are into interesting things. There are some men who like very, very dependant women, but those guys are kind of scary, so you probably want to avoid them.

So after you do your interest section where do we go from there?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So next you want to talk about what you do. So, again you ask someone to be a little more interesting, so don’t just say “I’m a florist” or “I’m a banker.” Talk a little bit about what it is you do. Maybe why you like what you do. So for example, I put “I have a degree in fashion and merchandising, but I am now currently a marketing strategist, teaching women entrepreneurs how to build bigger, better businesses and how to live their best life.” So just kind of beef it up a little bit and make yourself seem even more interesting than just one or two words would do for you.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. Just a few comments I have on that is: 1.) I think that’s really good. And there’s a couple things here. A lot of women who are listening might be like, “well my job is kind of boring.” Right? Or “I don’t even have a job.” Maybe I’m a stay at home mom who’s back in the dating world again. Maybe I have a job where I’m just, like, an admin at a bank or something like that, and it’s not terribly fascinating. What do you say to women who are in that situation? What should they do about what they do in that case?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. You know I think it’s important to be honest but it’s also important to talk about your passions because those are things that you do, too. So I would focus on your passions as well. So for example, like, let’s say you are the stay at home mom and you don’t have a job. Okay, so you know you might want to say, “You know, I’m currently a stay at home mom. I take care of my children, but I have a big passion for jewelry making and I make my own necklaces and bracelets and, you know, sell them to my friends.” Or, you know, whatever it is that you have an interest in, even if it’s not necessarily a business or something that makes money. I think it’s important to put that in there as well.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah and passion in general is really the key word here. Right? People are attracted to passionate people. People are attracted to people who are excited about what they do. I would personally as a guy caution against. . . I know as women who have children your children are your world. It’s awesome, I love kids, I hope to have some someday. Don’t make your entire passion about your children. Even though I know they’re a huge part of your life, they take over your life, it’s really hard to have free time. As a guy, most guys go through your profile, if they see that a woman is just, like, all about the kids, all about the kids, all about the kids, and doesn’t have any kind of independence outside the kids. Even guys who really like children and could be potential long-term partners for you, who could be in their lives, are probably going to be turned off by that. It’s a little bit too much. . . It’s just like it’s too deep and too intense too soon. You really want to show that you’re independent and fun and sexy. And yes, your kids are important. Whether you mention your children in your profile or not is really kind of up to you, I would say. It’s not something that most guys want to see as a surprise after they start dating you but you don’t want to make it kind of the main focus of what’s going on either. Veronica. . .

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. If you decide. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Go ahead.

VERONICA MEYERS:

If you decide not to talk about your children in your profile, which again, I agree with Michael that you shouldn’t put too much emphasis on it, there is a little section in all of the profiles for all of the sites that I’ve used where it asks if you have children, and it’s usually just a yes or no type answer.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And I think that’s a good place to put it.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, I agree, I agree. I’ve got questions before from women who were saying they have special needs kids, and what do we do in that case? My particular opinion on that is that you keep that for later, you know? Get to know the guy, get to know the guy as a human being, date and then bring that up in a soft way and go from there.

Veronica, what do you think about intimidation factors in what you do to a certain degree? We certainly get emails from women sometimes that say, “Michael, I make $200,000 a year. I’m a vice president at a bank. I’m very, very active, and I can’t find guys who want to date me.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Right. And sometimes I see like, you know, you’re saying you’re a marketing strategist, you do these things, you’re very excited, but you do it in a non-intimidating way. There are sometimes guys out there who are just like really intimidated by successful women. And I would never want to tell a woman to play ditzy right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. Right, right, right, right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I don’t personally agree with that. Though I will say, as a guy, like my girlfriend does this sometimes, like we’ll be hanging out and she’ll just do this little like sorority girl character for me. Where she’s just, like, a little bit like ditzy and, you know, like, “oh hi! How are you?” And I don’t know what it is, like, I love independent powerful women, but I’m like yeah, that works in some way. I don’t know if it’s just, like, the lizard brain thing or culturization thing or what, but what would your recommendation be to women who are more successful? Who are very independent, who don’t need a guy in their lives, who are finding that it’s really hard to find guys out there who are okay with that? Cause as a guy we do like to be needed to some degree right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Just like women like to be needed. So what’s your opinion on that?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. So overall I think it’s important to be yourself. You know, you want to find somebody who loves you for you, and that’s really important, but however I think it’s also important to me to tone it down just a little bit. So for example, like, I would probably categorize myself as one of those stronger type women. And in the past I have had some challenges with men that I’ve been on dates with who have been a little intimidated by my presence. So one thing that I’ve really changed throughout the years of going on dates is, I really let the guy kind of take control of the conversation, take control of the date, and make him feel like he’s the hunter and he’s going after me. I don’t pretend to act like I’m stupid or ditzy or anything like that, but I just let him take the position of control a little bit more, and I think that really helps the situation a lot.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. And in your profile I think you can. . . It’s a matter of how high you turn up the heat in that case, right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I mean you kind of say. . . I would say in that case, very high power job or very well off yourself, you can mention that you like adventures, you like doing things, things like that but don’t overplay it, you know. Just like a guy, I mean,

I would tend to say a guy who is like only talking about his money and his job on his profile is kind of a douchebag too. Or as you were telling me recently about. . . oh no, that was another friend of mine I saw over the weekend who was talking about going to this, like, big business event. Our friend Sophia actually, and she was talking about how every guy who walked up to her told her how high on the Ink 500 list they were. That was the first thing they said. I’m like “really guys, really, wow.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Wow. Yeah, yeah. I tend to stay away from those.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yes, yes. You want guys that are successful but not arrogant about it, generally speaking.

Okay, so where do we go from there? What’s the next section of our profile?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So the next section is “what I’m looking for,” and it’s really important in this section to not be too demanding. That’s very important. So you want to be fun and kind of be a little bit more airy about what it is that you’re looking for. You know you don’t want to say you’re looking for somebody who makes over six figures. You don’t want say you’re looking for somebody who’s looking to get married right away.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh god no.

VERONICA MEYERS:

That’s not what you want to say. You want to talk about the things that you enjoy, and how you’re looking for somebody who enjoys those things, too. So, for example, this is what I have: “Someone who enjoys the little things in life. Who likes to explore and travel. Has goals and is driven. Has ambition, likes to be challenged. Is okay with eating cereal or ice cream for dinner every once in a while,” and then I have, like, a little smile face. “Takes care of themselves, is unique and has their own style and has a fondness for Mexican cuisine.” So it’s you know, those are all things that I am looking for but you know it’s not too. . . it’s not. . . the man who reads it doesn’t feel pressured.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, yeah. Very much so. And I would say when I was dating. . . you know I actually wrote a long blog article about this once, about the worst type of online dating profile a woman can put up. Which is a, usually doesn’t have a photo or it’s hidden for some reason, and then it’s just like really, really needy and demanding. And it’s like I’ve seen these so many times from women where it’s like “looking for my prince.” You know, “princess looking for her prince” is one that I used to see all the time. “Searching for that perfect man who will sweep me off my feet, take care of me and will love me and only me,” and is essentially a eunuch as far as I can tell, and it’s just like a really. . . it’s the good guys, even good guys who could be a potential prince run away from that kind of thing.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

All the time. We are scared off by neediness. The only guys who aren’t scared off by neediness are, my technical term for them is usually douchebags. Because they’re looking for women that they can control. They’re looking for women who can just take care of them, a pretty unbalanced relationship.

As Veronica is saying, your profile needs to be independent. It needs to be an advertisement, needs to show the best version of you. It can’t just be that whole, and also not though. . . My girlfriend and I were talking about her lists of traits, and she was like, “Yeah, you’ve got about 80 percent of them.” I’m like that’s great, I’m doing great as far as our relationship goes. But if you’re listing out, like, every detail–“you must be 6’1,” “you must do this, you must do that,” you know, “must have a full head of hair, must love children, must love dogs, must love parakeets, must do this, must be in the medical profession, must be, you know, blah, blah, blah.” Most guys will just kind of see that and be like, “oh for freaking hell, this girl is high maintenance.” High maintenance. And no guy wants a high maintenance woman, especially at the beginning. You know, later on, yes, some maintenance comes up. We all do that. But at the beginning it needs to be much more fun, much more light, much more airy.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, exactly.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. So where do we go from there?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So the last section. . . so I call this section, “does any of that sound interesting to you?” And this is where, you know, in the marketing world we would call this the “Call to Action.” I basically want to persuade the person who read the profile to take some action and send you an email. So in this profile or in this section I write, “Maybe we’ll click, maybe we won’t. Who knows? But a wise man once told me, ’No great reward ever came without great risks.’ So to get my attention just write me an email.”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So again I keep it light and airy too. You know, it’s not too persuasive, it’s not too hard, it’s pretty. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

It’s not a hard close. You know, you’re not doing a scarcity thing, where it’s like “I’m taking my profile down in two days. You must write me now.” But that would be an interesting experiment to run, I think.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, I really should try that.

MICHAEL FIORE:

If you just, like, really played some of those marketing tricks as they were and said “my profile is going down on midnight on Friday, and if you do not get me messages by then. . . ” I really like that. I like. . . I mean, notice that she’s inviting them to say hi. A lot of women don’t really do that. They just kind of leave it very standoffish there. But if you want good guys to write you, you need to open the door for them to make them know that it’s okay to say hello. A lot of guys, a lot of good guys, attractive, intelligent, well off guys, guys who have jobs, which is always what a lot of women are looking for “a guy with a job. Fantastic!” are shy and intimidated by women. Right? As a woman depending on who you’re looking for, a lot of women say, “why do only douchebags or assholes ever approach me?” Well they have confidence because they don’t care, right? They’re not scared. A lot of guys who are nicer, who are really, would make great boyfriends, great husbands, great fathers are really intimidated by women. They never really learned how to talk to a girl in a proper way. So you need to open the door for them.

One thing I also recommend, both for men and for women, is be more intriguing, really giving a specific challenge or specific instruction to somebody in your profile. For instance you could say, I have these things in Text the Romance Back Back called “Big Questions,” which is one of my favorite concepts and I use in everything I do. And Big Questions are really intriguing, weird, interesting, questions that basically demand an answer. One of my favorites is, “If I were a genie and could grant you three wishes, what would they be?” Right? And that question really would engage the more interesting and creative guys that are out there and will give you some really interesting stuff to work with right off the bat. Cause some guys are going to go to really dirty places right away, some guys are going to be kind of pandering with that kind of question, and some guys are going to be just right and kind of go from there. But it gives them a topic to work with as opposed to just, like, you know, opening up with, like, “hey, what’s up?” or “you’re hot.” Which I never understand why guys do that. “You’re so beautiful.” I’m like yeah, you’ll never get a date from that girl going from there.

But Big questions, doing something very specific like that can be very, very effective. It could be, you know, if you could be, “what are you most passionate about right now?” Is a very, very powerful one cause it shows that you’re looking for passion for very interesting things. “If you could be anywhere in the world right now, who would it be?” “Who do you admire most in this world and why?” Anything like that would be a really interesting way to keep the conversation going in your profile.

VERONICA MEYERS:

That’s a great tip.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I love those things. So okay, great, so we’ve talked about your main profile, we’ve talked about photos and how important photos are, we’ve talked about the structure of how you actually write your actual profile. And your structure is that you start off with your interests and why your interests are important to you. You know you’re saying because, just use that word “because” you know, “I like to knit because I love that quiet time alone where I’m able to focus and create wonderful things for my friends.” Whatever it’s going to be. Just use the word “because” right there.

Then you go into what you do, and what you do can either be your vocation or your avocation. Your vocation being your job that you get paid for, or your avocation is what you do on the side. I know a lot of actors and actresses here in Seattle where I live, and they would say, “Well, you know I wait tables, but what I really am is I’m an actress, and I really love getting on stage, I love getting on stage and I’m extremely passionate about embodying a character and feeling them through my body, etc.” Going from there.

Then you’re going into what you’re looking for without being too demanding. No “I’m looking for prince charming to sweep me off my feet.” If I ever see the words “prince charming” in your profile I will slap you. I’m sorry, but it’s not okay. As I say in much of my stuff, Prince Charming doesn’t exist, just like Kourtney Kardashian doesn’t actually exist. These are stereotypes that are fed to us from a marketing standpoint but don’t actually exist.

And finally, we’re going to our call to action, where you’re inviting the right kind of guy to actually call you up and say hello or write you and say hello. So Veronica, let’s talk about the next step in the online dating process. You know you’ve got your profile up, now there’s two things that can kind of go on. One is I write to you, and you kind of figure out what happens from there, and another is that you’re looking for profiles and you find one of a guy that you find intriguing or attractive or who sends a shiver down your spine, and you write him. So let’s first start off with how to handle when a guy writes you, both in a good way and a bad way. You know guys that you actually want to respond to and guys that you don’t want to respond to.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Okay, so if a guy messages me and I don’t want to respond to them, the great thing about online dating is that you just don’t have to respond. So you don’t have to feel pressured to write them back. So some people make the decision to send an email back saying, you know, “no thank you, I don’t think we’re a good match etc.” I personally choose not to do that. I’ve tried that in the past, and I feel like a lot of the guys I have responded to and said, you know, “no thanks, this isn’t going to work out for me,” they kind of take that little inch that I give them and they try and like come back and come back for more. Find out maybe why I’m not interested or, you know, take that. . . what’s the saying? If you give an inch they take a mile?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, yeah. They badger you. I mean, there are some guys on online dating sites who are not well socialized and don’t have good self-esteem. Weird, I know. And they will. . . I’ve been in that situation myself, right? Where it’s like, you’re dating, and you’re at that weird emotional state where you’re looking for somebody, and you find a profile and you get excited, and then if you don’t get a response, yeah, it’s annoying, but you move on with your life. And if you do get a response, even if it’s one that’s kind of like, you’re like, well there’s engagement here right, kind of going from there. I recommend what. . . I agree with Veronica there. Where even though it’s a little rude, if a guy doesn’t meet your criteria you’re better off just kind of not saying anything at all.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. And if you find them badgering you, if you find that a guy keeps sending you emails over and over, and you’re just not really, you know, you don’t want to go out with him, you’re not responding, there is a way to block profiles on every social, on every dating site. So I would recommend doing that. I’ve done that many times, I just block people and then I never have to worry about them again.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yup and that’s, you know, again, it’s not exactly polite, but it’s just the best thing to do for your own safety and your own sanity. A lot of women I know end up getting, especially if you use Veronica’s techniques here, you’re going to get a lot of emails. You know, as a guy you really don’t get that many at all. Even if you write a great profile, generally speaking, women want to be pursued and not be the pursuer. So you will get a few but you won’t get as many. As a woman you can get quite a few emails from guys, and if you try to reply to every single one or deal with every single guy, you might get a little bit crazy. So yeah, great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Online Dates Tips and Communication

So then if a guy sends you an email and you are interested, I would recommend sending him an email back. Okay, so you know, I’ve tested a lot of different emails, and this is kind of the formula that I find works the best for me. So if I know the guys name, I’ll always say, “Hi Mike,” “hi Jeff,” “hi Steve,” so I talk to them by their name. If I don’t know their name, I always want to do a little introduction that’s, like, a little more flirty than just “hi.” So I’ll say like, “hey there,” or, you know, something like that. It’s just like a little bit more flirty.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Flirty and very casual.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, very casual. And then I always thank them for the email. You know, just show your appreciation and gratitude that they took the time to email you, I think that’s important. Now if they have asked you any questions, I think it’s really important at this point to respond to them. So if they ask, you know, “how long have you lived in, you know, Baltimore or etc.” respond to all the questions that they’ve asked you in their prior email.

And then the next point is that you really want to ask them questions for a couple reasons. 1.) You want to show them that you’re interested and actually took the time to read their profile, and 2.) you want to give them something to respond to. So if you don’t ask him any questions, why should he respond to your email?

MICHAEL FIORE:

Very much so, very much so. Yeah, the worst thing you can possibly do is just, like, write back “oh thanks.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. Yeah, that wouldn’t get a response, there’s no reason.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And the guys, like, sitting there at his computer like, “I don’t know what to say. Is that an invitation for more? Is that a blow off?” Like don’t be. . . Being coy is good, being vague is not in this case.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So sometimes when you go through these profiles and you’re trying to look for pieces of information, you can ask questions about–this is my personal experience–I found that some men don’t give a lot of information, so it’s hard to come up with these questions. So a really good idea is what you were talking about earlier, with the baiting. It’s where you ask a question like, “if you were you know, if you. . . ”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Desert island.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. So that’s a good thing you can do here. I’ve actually asked questions like that. Like “if you were going to a deserted island and you weren’t coming back and could only bring three things what would you bring?”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Perfect.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And I always get responses for those types of things. So if you don’t have something specific to ask them based upon their profile, ask them something more generic that’s still creative.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And it’ll open up the, it opens up the conversation, and it’s more than just that kind of juvenile conversation a lot of guys will probably go to naturally. A lot of guys just aren’t that creative about this kind of thing, and you’re leading them into finding out more about them and seeing if they’re interesting guys.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. And then you just want to close out the email. So I never say, “looking forward to hearing from you,” or “can’t wait to get an email back.” I just say, “talk soon.” That’s all I say, because it shows like a little bit of confidence. Like “I know you’re going to email me back, I’m not worried about it. I’m going to go about my day, and I’ll check my email at some point and I know that I’m going to have an email from you.” So I say, “talk soon,” and then I sign it Veronica.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And there’s an important thing there about not being too eager, which is tough sometimes as a woman you know. Really, it’s so unfortunate the way we get stuck in these traditional gender roles, right? Where it’s like the guy has to chase and the girl has to run, you know, that kind of thing. And sometimes you just want to be the woman who walks up and says “I find you attractive, let’s go.” And that can work, but sometimes it freaks guys out.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It reminds me of a time I got hit on by a girl who was a, this is a weird story, but I was at a business thing and was talking to this woman who was a lesbian, and we were chatting, getting alone fine, chatting about some stuff, and then I noticed that she was touching my arm a bit and doing some other stuff, and I was like, “oh my god, she’s hitting on me, but she’s hitting on me like men hit on women.” And it freaked me out. And as a guy. . . And I’ve been hit on by men before, I live in Seattle in Capitol Hill, and you just kind of get used to it and move on with your life. But coming from a girl, particularly, I was like “this is the weirdest thing in the world.” Like, she’s kind of, like, acting dominant a little bit and, like, touching me a lot and doing these things. I’m like, that’s just not how guys, especially kind of more alpha guys, I suppose, kind of deal with these things. So you have to play a little bit coy. You have to play a little bit hard to get. You have to run a little bit for the guy to chase you.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right. It’s very important.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And okay, great. So what happens then? You start getting a conversation going back and forth, what’s your goal at this point? Are you trying to get to a phone call? Are you trying to get to a date? Where are you trying to aim things at this point, and what are some of your, I guess, what are some of the indicators that you might get from a guy over email that you’re like “nope, not going to go any further,” or indicators that you’re like “yeah, this guy might be worth something?”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. So indicators that you know that we shouldn’t go further or that he’s worth something. If he says anything, like, really explicitly sexual to me, I usually stop talking to him. For me, that’s a turn off because I’m not looking for sex.

MICHAEL FIORE:

A hook up.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah. You know eventually, but not right away. You know, if he starts to get boring and stops asking me questions about myself, I tend to kind of leave him alone. If he just keeps sending me emails and emails and emails and doesn’t get to the next step, which is, for me, the phone call, I back out. So I actually have a rule about that. So I allow three emails back and forth, so three each, a total of six, and if we haven’t taken it to the phone I just stop talking to them, because in my experience it’s not going to go anywhere.

MICHAEL FIORE:

So if a guy, in that case you’re going back and forth, it’s been three and there is no indicator of a phone connection, you just ignore the guy.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, just ignore them. You know there’s things that you can do in your emails to kind of hint that you want them to ask for your number. So, for example, when I was talking to this one guy last week, and I’m really into juicing and I said to him, in my email I said, “Well, maybe one day I’ll have the opportunity to make you one of my delicious juices.” Well he asked me for my phone number in the next email, and I have a date with him next week. So. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah. Great example of, again, baiting. As a woman, baiting is your most powerful thing. Women ask me all the time, they say, “Oh, I thought I was supposed to let him chase me.” I’m like, he’s not going to chase you unless he knows that you want to be chased. It’s kind of like you’re playing, you know, when you’re hanging out with kids, right? Like a kid will often run away a little bit and then he’ll look over his shoulder and he’ll be like, are you chasing me or not? And then when you start chasing he starts laughing a lot and starts running some more and doing some other things. It’s the same kind of thing. You need to, like, lead a little bit so that he knows that you want to be chased. You need to give him a little, you know, give him something to work with. In that case as opposed to. . .

It reminds me of people who went through The Secret or the law of attraction, right? And they’re like sitting in their rooms saying, “I’m attracting wealth into my life.” You are? Like, “I’m attracting wealth into my life,” and I’m like well, you’re sitting in front of Maury Povich, I don’t really think that’s attracting wealth into your life. You have to do something to kind of get it and go from there. Let the money know it’s supposed to come over to you instead of just hanging out.

Okay, so let’s go from there. You’re kind of baiting, but you’re really letting him be the one to ask for the number. Do you ever ask for his number?

VERONICA MEYERS:

I’ve done it in the past, and it never really worked out the way I had hoped so I stopped doing that. I think that, like, men really want to hunt, and I give them the opportunity to hunt me. If I hunt them they get scared, so I don’t.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, and I would generally tend to agree with that. Again, it’s opening that door but giving them the sense of accomplishment in they are doing something and they’re pursuing you in some way. Women that come on very, very strong, who are just like “give me your number, I’m going to call you,” you can, I suppose there would be examples where it’s like “I want to get your number to send you something specific.” That might be okay, where you’re like “hey, I want to send you a text, I want to send you a picture of something.” Don’t send them something dirty at that point earlier on, unless you just want a sexual relationship. And if you just want a sexual relationship that’s fine, go for it. Do whatever you’re going to do. But generally speaking, I would agree with Veronica here that you want him to ask for the number.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right, I agree. So then there’s a couple things that could happen there. So one: he doesn’t call you or two: he does. So if he doesn’t call me I just ignore it. I don’t go back to the email. I just ignore it. If he doesn’t call me he’s not going to call me, and it’s time to move on in my opinion.

If he does call me I prefer one or two phone calls before I actually go out on the date, and I allow him to ask me out on the date because again, you know, men are hunters. But you know, like Michael was saying, there are ways that you can kind of bait him throughout your phone conversations to get him to want to ask you. If you start having more than two phone calls I would kind of back away, and there’s a reason. 1.) It will just, you’ll just continue to have phone calls and it won’t go anywhere. 2.) You might find yourself developing some feelings for the person over the phone, and when you actually meet them in person you might have different feelings for them, and then you might be a little bit disappointed. I’ve had that happen to me too. So two phone calls maximum to get him to take me on a date or just end it.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Cool. And there, as far as like examples of how. . . Couple things there. 1.) The cognitive dissonance of the person you were talking to on IM or on the phone versus who you meet can be really devastating. You can be like, “oh, I thought this person was this other one person,” then you meet them. Their physicality is really different than you were expecting. They don’t smell the way you want them to smell, you know. Which is very important, by the way. You know, pheromones do exist and they’re very, very powerful, and sometimes you’ll meet somebody and you’ll smell them and be like, I really don’t want to be anywhere near you. Or, you smell like my cousin. It’s strange, going from there. Scent can be very, very powerful.

And also as far as giving them the opportunity to ask you out, can you give an example of how you open that door without asking them out yourself?

VERONICA MEYERS:

So a great way to do this is maybe ask them what they’re doing over the weekend. That’s something, and then you know they’ll tell you what they’re doing and then, if they ask you and you’re not really doing something, you know, that might give them the opportunity to know that you’re available and to ask to ask you out. That’s one way you could do it. You know. . . Do you have any suggestions? You’re a little more creative than me.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Well, I think that just opening the door a little bit. Where it’s saying, like, you know, you’re talking about how the weekend’s coming up. “What are you doing?” He says this and this and just, you know, like, “Yeah, I’m hanging out on Friday. I’ve got really big plans on Friday, but on Saturday I’m really just planning a kind of quiet evening. I don’t really have anything in particular planned.” Right? That can be. . . Now the key here, I would say, is don’t just say, “Oh I’m just sitting around the house all weekend playing World of Warcraft.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, that’s. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Right?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It’s like you want to make it seem like you are an active person. You have friends, you do things, you go out, but there happens to be this one window that’s open for whatever reason, you know? It could be like, you know, “Oh, Friday night me and the girls are going out and we’re doing this, this, and this, and then on Saturday morning I’m doing this, but on Saturday night I really don’t have any plans right now. I’ll probably just read a book or something unless something better comes up.” Right. “Unless something better comes up” is not like a. . . You don’t say “unless something better comes up, like you want to call me and go out somewhere.” Just leaving it open in a kind of confident way right? Not a big deal.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. I might use that. “I mean, unless something better comes up this week.”

MICHAEL FIORE:

And then a guy who’s, you know, if Veronica and I were on the phone and she said that then, “Honestly? Oh, I was thinking about going to see this play on Saturday night. Why don’t you come along with me?” Right? And as a guy it’s the same thing. It’s not like you’re not making the date this big formal scary thing.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It’s relatively casual. You don’t know each other. There’s no pressure. Why would there be pressure? You don’t know each other.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right, right. It’s in my opinion, from the dates I’ve been on, dates really scare men.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yes. Yes they do. Because it’s so, it’s such a big deal at that point.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Right. it’s like okay I want to meet up and go to my, you know, go to this big dance and we’re going to do this and wear tuxedos and all that other kind of stuff. It’s like, oh jeez, I don’t even know you. What if we don’t like each other after five minutes? Kind of goes on from there.

So what kind of date, you know, are there times when. . . say we’re on the phone and there’s a guy talking to you, and if he does ask for a really, really big deal date, what do you do?

VERONICA MEYERS:

It depends exactly what he wants to do. I prefer not to go on a big deal date. So maybe try and talk him away from that without making him feel like his date was a bad idea. You know, I prefer doing something more simple and casual like grabbing drinks, or getting coffee during the day, or dinner is even okay. But when a guy starts to plan this big grandiose evening, that’s when you are staring trouble in the eye. At least in my opinion. Because a couple of things could happen. 1.) You might not like him or he might not like you, and then you end up on this long date that you don’t want to be on and you don’t have the heart to tell him that you’re not interested, or he doesn’t have the heart to tell you, and you just end up with wasting a night and not having much fun. Or he gets really nervous about his date because he planned this huge date and he feels like he really has to deliver. So just try and back him down into like a smaller, simpler date. Maybe dinner or drinks, that would be my recommendation.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I would say like you want, you want a fun, private, opportunity for conversation that has a time limit, has a natural time limit to it. Right? Where it’s going to be drinks, drinks are going to be about an hour, dinner’s going to be maybe an hour and a half, two hours. Something like that. But it’s basically, you have a limited engagement with room for renewal.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Online Dates Tips and Putting it Into PlayIt can be, you know, you’re going to be up at a bar, you get a drink, you sit and you talk for a while, being in a bar you can actually talk in where it’s not too loud, and then you can open up to the idea of what’s next from there. And hopefully as a guy, you know when I coach guys, you want to have other options figured out, right? For the rest of the evening if things go well. You don’t just want to be like, we had drinks, now what? It’s like oh, let’s go do this, let’s go do this, let’s go do this, is a good thing for a guy to do. Leave the option, but also leave the option for “I’m going to get out of here at this point.”

What about safety concerns? I mean, is there anything to think? I mean, these are guys you’ve never met before. You don’t know who they are. They could be great, they could be psychopaths. Most of the time they’re not psychopaths, but hey, we gotta talk about safety. How do you kind of handle that?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, it’s really important to protect yourself and make sure that you’re in a safe environment. So for example, I would not let your date pick you up from anywhere, actually. Even if it’s where you live or don’t live, I would not get into the car with my date, especially on the first date. Even the second date, maybe even the third date. Really get to know the guy that you’re going out with and feel really comfortable with them. Always go somewhere where there’s a whole bunch of people around. So that’s why I like going to a bar or going to a restaurant or going to Starbucks, something like that. You know, hiking in the middle of the woods on a first date is not a good option.

MICHAEL FIORE:

It’s also a great. . . I’ve actually had friends, a friend of mine wrote me the other day about she went on this long hike with a guy and it was, like, an eight hour date on their first or second date. And it was, like, a horrible experience, cause they’re both sweaty and miserable and trapped together. And he wasn’t a psychopath, he was a nice guy, they just didn’t click, right? Just a bad idea.

What about like having a friend, you know, call you or anything like that? Do you ever do anything like that?

VERONICA MEYERS:

You know, I never have. I know a lot of women who have done that. You know, have them call, have a friend on standby to call you and, you know, make something up in case it’s not going well.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Sure. Sure.

VERONICA MEYERS:

I’ve never done that. You know, I’ve just, what I’ll do if I’m not really enjoying the date and I want to go home, at some point during the date when I’m, like, ready to leave, I’ll say, “You know, I’m feeling really tired and I have a big day tomorrow. Is it okay if we end this here?” That’s always worked really well for me. Because it’s believable, and it’s worked.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And you see his face fall and he gets all sad and like a puppy and kind gets like, “I thought we were doing well, what’s going on?” So there you go. So if it’s a good date, if it’s going well, feel free to extend it to a certain point.

And generally speaking I would tell you not to sleep with a guy on a first date, just one of those things.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Agreed.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Doesn’t tend to. . . unless you’re just looking for sex. If you’re just looking for sex, some people are, that’s totally cool, go for it. But if you’re looking for something more, as a guy I can tell you we put the women that we sleep with right away into a different box than the women that we don’t sleep with right away. As far as potential goes.

VERONICA MEYERS:

It never works out well.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Very, very rarely would work out well, I would say.
I’ve heard of occasions but it’s very, very rare.

So what happens then? So you basically either extend the date, and you kind of go out for awhile and you have a good time, you dance, you make out somewhere, everything goes great, or not so much. You go home. What’s the next step?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Okay, so there’s two things that can happen. 1.) You like him and/or 2.) You don’t like him. So if you don’t like him, I wouldn’t worry about him again unless he, you know, starts emailing you.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Okay hi, this is Michael. We had to pause for a minute due to some noise on Veronica’s end, but we’re back. And we were going to talk about how to handle things after you have your date and you kind of go home. And she was saying that if you don’t like the guy you generally don’t say anything at all.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. You don’t like the guy and you don’t hear from him, that’s fine. You never have to talk to him again. If you don’t like the guy but you do hear from him, I think it’s really important to respond.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I agree.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I think that’s just the right thing to do. It’s very respectful. He took the time to take you out on a date, and you should show your appreciation and acknowledge it. So you know, if he calls you I don’t think you necessarily have to call him back. You can send him a text message or send him an email. Thank him for the date and just say “you know, I don’t think that this is going to work out between us.”

MICHAEL FIORE:

I would. . . And as a guy I would definitely agree with that. I’ve been in situations before, even when I’ve been dating a girl for a. . . I’m thinking of one girl in particular I fell for really hard years ago, and we had a connection. We had a great sexual connection, I thought we were having a lot of fun, and then she just disappeared. And it turns out it had nothing to do with me, by the way. You know, she had some other stuff going on personally and she just disappeared. And it drove me a little bit nuts. If she had just taken one minute to call me up and say, “Listen, I got some stuff going on that I’m not feeling it,” that would have been fantastic. As opposed to leaving a guy hanging. Which, you know, as a woman is the same way. If a guy just, like, you were into and was dating and was attracted to just disappeared on you it could very quickly turn you into a crazy person, even if you’re not.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

We all have that reaction. So the responsible adult thing to do, and the right thing to do and the safest thing to do, by the way, for everybody involved, is simply to say, “listen I just wasn’t feeling it. I think you’re a nice guy but I don’t feel that connection, I don’t feel that attraction.” And that’s it.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. So let’s say you do like him.

MICHAEL FIORE:

One quick thing before we continue, what if the guy says, “oh whoa, why?”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Oh. . . yeah. I just ignore him at that point.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Then that’s probably for the best. Those are going to be needy guys. Those are going to be guys who are demanding an answer. You know maybe one more, one last email, but that’s it. Don’t get into a big conversation. Don’t get into insults. Don’t get into anything like that. Don’t give him the laundry list of things. “Well, your body odor is horrible and you listen to show tunes,” you know.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

You don’t want to go there. You just kind of say, “Listen, it’s not you, it’s me. I’m just not feeling it.” That’s a totally valid answer.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. Let them move on. So let’s say you are digging the guy. So if he gets back in touch with you and asks you out again, great. Figure out another date, something fun, and go out and see if you still enjoy each other. And then if, let’s say you did like him but you don’t hear from him. So this is what I do. I generally wait about, you know, four to seven days. I give the guy an opportunity to call me or text me, but I don’t really prefer texts. I’d rather them call, but it’s 2012.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Texting is awesome, Veronica. It’s what I build my entire system on. It’s magical. Never say anything to the opposite! No, I agree. Calling, texting, either way can really be fine, honestly in my opinion. On the phone is much more intimate, but can be more awkward at that point; a lot of guys are intimidated by that. We’re kind of used to being able to send over a text at that point so. . . But anyway continue, go ahead.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So let’s say you haven’t heard from him, you know, just give him a call, and again I would thank him for the date. Tell him that you had a great time, and you would be interested in seeing him again or you could be a little more specific, like Michael was talking about earlier, you know. “I have an extra ticket to this show this weekend. Would you like to come with me?”

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

If he does not respond to that call or that text message that you send to him, then you know it’s time to just move on from there.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I agree. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that. And again, it’s you gotta run a little bit. And it could just be that he’s not interested. Again, it would be really his responsibility, if you get in touch, to write you back and say, “I’m just not interested. I’m just not interested, here’s why.” Like it doesn’t have to be “here’s why,” “I’m just not interested; it’s not what I’m looking for right now.” If he’s mature, that’s hopefully what he will do. Unfortunately a lot of men, like a lot of women, are not that mature and leave things from there.

I also say sometimes, with women, what you can do is be more aggressive with it. If somebody doesn’t get in touch with you right away, you can send. . . I talk about this in Text the Romance Back, you can send fun little texts like “Stop worrying, you’ll see me again soon!” or “Get your jaw off the floor,” or something like that right? Showing confidence and teasing and that kind of thing, which really can create that reality for a guy. Right?

Sometimes for guys what I’ll say is, you know, say you’ve met a girl online and you went on a date and you kissed. What I would often tell a guy to do would be to send a text that was like, “My favorite part was the way you pushed your hips against me as we kissed and just melted into me. Looking forward to seeing you again.” Right? Whether she actually did that or not is relatively immaterial at that point, because simply by saying that it happened you’ll have her thinking, “wow, that really did happen.” As a woman, you can do something really similar, right? You know, like, “Wow, you couldn’t keep your eyes of me all night. You must see something you like.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

I like that. I’m going to try that this week.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah. Please do, let me know how it goes! But that kind of confidence. . . What happens is a lot of guys, they might even be like, “Well, I’m not so sure about this girl,” and then they’re like “wow, I must have been looking at her like that all night. What does that mean?” It kind of creates reality. Right? It creates the reality you want. As I always say in my programs, reality is subjective and doesn’t really exist, so you can do things like that.

VERONICA MEYERS:

That’s great.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Yeah, so from there you’re dating, right? From there, I mean, in my opinion you’re hopefully off of the dating site with each other, you’re talking on the phone, you’re texting, you’re going from there, and you’re seeing where things go from a dating standpoint.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

What about. . . Let’s talk about a few things that can happen from here. Sometimes, I’ve had this from women who say, “I met this guy online, we went out. We went out three times. His profile is still up. What does that mean? Does he not like me? I thought we had a thing. What’s going on? What’s going on?” What do you tell women in that case?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Well, I personally have the opinion that unless the two people have the conversation about them being exclusive, they have the right to keep dating other people. That’s my personal opinion.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I agree, yeah.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So if it’s just been three dates and, you know, you haven’t had that conversation yet, then it’s okay. Personally I think three dates, after having three dates and going right into a monogamous relationship, I think that’s a little fast.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I agree.

VERONICA MEYERS:

So I personally always am dating multiple guys. You know, if I decide to be dedicated and committed and monogamous to one man, I’m not going to do that. But if I’m just in the flirty, dating phase, I think it’s okay. And you know, if you see his profile still up, either have the conversation if the timing is right maybe, or just keep dating yourself and keep your options open.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I like that. The idea of dating yourself. I’m going to take myself out this weekend. It’s going to be wonderful.

Yeah, I mean, don’t freak out about it. That’s the hardest part, ’cause it’s such emotional stuff. Especially if you’ve been in a relationship where you’re still getting into a new one, where you’re out there and you’re just looking for that connection in some way. We’re all looking for that connection, and unfortunately there is some game playing that goes on.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Even though, even if you’re at a point where you’re like wow, I really like this guy, I’m really attracted to him, he smells amazing, I love the way he holds me, that kiss was fantastic. Like, I’m thinking about the seventeen babies we’re going to have, and blah, blah, blah. Cause we all do. . . by the way, all of us do that, right? Every human being in the world, when you meet somebody who you either emotionally or genetically click with, your brain goes crazy for a while. And you start doing, like this happened when I met my girlfriend, even though I was, like, I was dating multiple women, I was having a good time, and I met her and I was just like, “Oh, the future.” We all do that. And that’s largely just from biological reasons. Right? Like human beings, we really don’t have as much control over our minds as we think we do. And it’s like you meet somebody who would be a good mate, and your brain automatically goes to that place to try and hijack you into making babies, essentially from a biological stand- point. From a dating standpoint, you gotta tamp that down as quickly as possible.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. You can keep it in your mind. Don’t let him or her. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Don’t talk about it. You know, I get emails all the time from women saying “I met this guy, and he said I love you on the second date.” And I say run! Or you know, if a guy says, “I met this woman and she’s talking about moving in together and she got really mad at me cause she found out that I went on a date with somebody else, and blah, blah, blah.” And it’s like, run! What are you going to do? You gotta play it cool. And again that’s a little bit. . . Again, game playing. Unfortunately that’s what you have to do. People always say, “I don’t like guys who play games. I don’t like women who play games.” You’re lying, by the way. You’re lying to yourself.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah. And there’s different kinds of games, you know?

MICHAEL FIORE:

There are. Very much so, very much so. Yes, yes.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Fun games are okay, but the kinds where you’re really trying to mess with somebody is. . .

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh god, I hate that. I hate. . . I get people all the time asking me how to, how do I force a guy to commit? And my answer is, “I’m not the right person to ask about that. I won’t do it for you.”

Okay, so anything else? Anything else we should kind of cover in the online dating thing? I mean you’ve been on 100 online dates, 100 online dates. Anything else you particularly learned? Any other words of advice? Anything else for women who are kind of going through this?

I mean, I would generally say before you get started, and this is something I’m really big on in general, you can’t hit the target until you paint it on the wall, right? It’s a phrase of mine that I use in everything in my life. And what that means is there’s no way you’ll achieve your goal unless you very strictly define what your goal is.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Right. So as a woman or a man who’s doing the dating thing, it’s very important to know what you’re aiming for when you start doing this. You know, if you’re looking for marriage and kids and commitment and the life long love affair, that is very hard to achieve. Know that from the beginning and angle everything towards that. If you’re looking for, “I just want to go out and. . . You know I was married for eight years and my sex life was awful, and my romantic life was awful, and I want to go out and meet some fun guys and have a good time,” totally cool. Do it. And if you’re thing is, like, “I just want to see what happens,” that’s actually a goal too, to a certain degree. But don’t, never lie about what you’re looking for.

I get emails from women, I’m going to write an email about this probably today for women asking about “Friend with Benefits” relationships. And it’s like, “oh well, I met this guy. I really liked him, he said he didn’t want to date seriously, just wanted friends with benefits, and I thought that if we slept together he’d change his mind.”

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Doesn’t work.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Nope.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Ever. Ever. I’ve never heard of a situation where that worked for a woman. I have heard of situations where that worked for guys. He met a woman, she said she didn’t want any. . . Like my girlfriend. She and I met, she didn’t want a serious boyfriend, I seduced the living heck out of her, and we’re together two and a half years later. Right? For guys it really doesn’t work, I’m going to tell you right now. But, like, know what you’re going for is kind of the main message there.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. And actually, that’s really, really important, because that will help you to plan your approach. So like we talked about at the beginning of the call. . . You know there’s many different websites out there, and some of them are tailored for people who are looking for marriage, some of them are tailored for people who are just looking for casual dating. So that will help you to determine which site is best for you and then you’ll get better results.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And it takes a lot of the pressure off. It’s kind of like, you know, sometimes like networking, business networking. I have friends who are really nervous about business networking, and I’m like, we’re at a conference, this is what everyone is here to do. I have no problem walking up to anybody at a conference that I’m at and saying hello. It’s just like, that’s what we’re here. . . It’s like, “Hey, how you doing? I’m Michael. What’s your name?” Right? And we go from there. You can do the same thing on a dating site. Everyone is there to date. That’s what they’re there for, you know. On eHarmony, everyone’s there to find their lifelong partner, it’s okay. You know on, I don’t know, Hookup Seattle, they’re all there to hook up. It kind of goes from there.

So I think the final point there is, you know, really sit down, figure out what you’re looking for, what is your goal with dating. Why are you dating? Are you dating out of loneliness (which is totally valid)? Are you dating out of plans for the future? Whatever it is, and then follow Veronica’s pattern.

So Veronica, we covered a ton in our time together, ranging from which websites to use, some nightmare dates that people go on–and I love hearing about nightmare dates cause they’re hilarious. And I think you should approach your nightmare dates as humor. Right? They’re adventures. You’re going to meet some really wacky guys out there, and that can be kind of fun. I have some really great stories about great women I’ve met in my life. Some of them I’m still friends with actually, where things just didn’t click in that way.

We talked about the photo aspect of online profiles. How incredibly powerful good photos are and the three photos you need to have, which we talked about earlier.

We talked about a very simple, very effective structure for creating an online profile that works very, very well, using Veronica’s step-by-step process that multiplied her number of guys who were getting in touch with her by many, many times and led to her going on these many, many dates and getting closer and closer to the man of her dreams.

And then we talked about how to actually handle interaction back and forth. And then we covered, like, what to do on the actual date. Where to go on the actual date, from there. Veronica, one thing I think we forgot to kind of cover a little bit, maybe we can talk about it for very briefly here, was what if you’re on there and you find a guy’s profile that you like?

VERONICA MEYERS:

Okay. Yeah.

MICHAEL FIORE:

I think we just forgot to cover that, so why don’t we just cover for a minute here before we move on.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Yeah, I think it’s totally appropriate to send a guy that you like an email. You know, everybody who is on the site, like you said, is looking to date, and so I think it’s, I think that men would appreciate if you kind of stepped outside of your comfort zone maybe and just sent them a little email telling them that you’re interested. So it doesn’t have to be, you know, again, nothing heavy. What I always do is I send them just, like, a really light, fun, email that encourages them to respond back to me. So I always say, you know, if the guy has his name in the profile, again I always call him by his name. “So hey John,” “hey Steve,” or whatever. If not I just say “hey there.” It’s a little more flirty. “My name is Veronica. I came across your profile and I just wanted to say hi.” And then I ask two questions that make it seem. . . Actually, I take that back. I ask one question that makes it seem like I read the profile. So for instance, “I saw that you’re into indoor rock climbing, you know. Do you climb at Earth Treks? Or where is your favorite place to climb?” or something like that.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Great. Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

And then the next question. . . So I always send my emails on Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Oh, okay. Interesting. Great.

VERONICA MEYERS:

I always ask them, you know, “How was your weekend? Did you do anything fun?” and then I just sign it “Talk soon, Veronica.” So it’s just really airy, it’s light, no pressure, and it gives them something to respond back to because you asked them questions.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And you’re opening the door. That’s what you’re doing, you’re opening the door. Like, for instance, if I was, you know, if I was on a dating profile, which I’m not cause I have a wonderful girlfriend, but if I was, I would have something up there about Crossfit and things like that that I do. A great way for a girl to get in touch with me would be like, “Hey Michael, I saw that you do Crossfit. Where do you work out?” Or something like that. Right? A great way to just open the door. Shows a common interest, which is good. Shows that she actually paid attention to the profile, going from there. If you don’t get a response, move on.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right, just move on.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Rejection is hard, I understand, I know. And it’s harder for women because they’re not used to going out and having to do it all the time.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right. One thing with online dating is if you’re going to do it you really need to, you know, grow a little bit of thick skin and just not take any of the rejection personally, because the actual reality is that even though they might be reading your profile, they don’t really know you. So they’re not really necessarily rejecting you as an entire person, and just move on. You’ll find somebody who you do click with.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And I would say, in life in general, just assume that if somebody isn’t into you for whatever reason, it has nothing to do with you. Honestly, like yes, we all need to be aware of our flaws and our pecadillos and those kinds of things, but people are complicated, and there’s stuff going on in their lives in a lot of ways. I remember at one point I dated a girl really briefly, years ago, who we went on one or two dates, we had a good time, and then she freaked out on me. And it turns out that in some way I physically reminded her of a guy she had a really bad relationship with earlier. It had nothing to do with me at all. Right? It wasn’t that I was a horrible person, I wasn’t mean to her, I didn’t do anything like that. It was just this kind of thing that went on. So in general, just kind of be like, we’re all travelers on a spaceship hurtling towards the sun.

You know, it’s like, what’s going on? You have no idea what’s going on in any one person’s life, and you just really shouldn’t take it personally or try not to take it personally. It’s really hard to do that, but the best thing you can do is just, if you work on your own self-esteem, if you work on self-confidence and just realize the guy you’re looking for is out there, you know.

We’re talking about how Veronica went on 100 online dates, you’re getting closer and closer to finding that right guy.

VERONICA MEYERS:

Right.

MICHAEL FIORE:

Every “failure” brings you one step closer to victory. That’s how these things go. So Veronica, anything else you want to say as we close up?

VERONICA MEYERS:

You know, I just think it’s really important to put yourself out there on online dating, if this is what you want to do, and take the chance and take the risk, and, you know, I think that if you do that and just stay true to yourself, you’ll have a lot of success with it. And definitely a lot of fun. It’s been one thing that has, you know, been a great source of entertainment and a lot of fun to do throughout the years.

MICHAEL FIORE:

And you can meet such interesting people. To this day I am friends with several women who I met on online dates. And a couple of them we met, no connection. You know, no physical attraction, no emotional attraction, but just like wow, you’re an interesting person. Let’s hang out. And that can be okay.

Veronica, thank you so very much for your time and for doing this recording twice, cause we had some technical glitches that made us have to do it again. And I’m really excited about the material that we got here. I think there’s a lot of really great stuff, really actionable stuff, and ladies who are listening to this, please put your comments on the page for this particular module, this particular lesson. Let us know what

Michael Fiore

Internationally recognized as the foremost expert on how to have great relationships in the modern world, Michael is blunt, funny, and always honest.

In 2011, Michael appeared on “The Rachael Ray” show with his popular “Text The Romance Back Program” (Rachael said he gave her “chills”). Since then Michael has given women X-Ray vision into men’s minds with “The Secret Survey”, helped thousands rebuild relationships with “Text Your Ex Back”, and has become an Amazon Best Selling Author.

Michael lives in Seattle, WA and is currently hard at work on his next shocking, straightforward and really, really useful program.

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